Seikichi Uehara Motobu Ryu

[mugitani]

Chris,

That appears to be the Hakko-ryu Jujutsu Shihan Meikan (directory) that I mentioned in a previous post. It is different than the magazine issue I mentioned--it is a book listing Hakko-ryu shihan. On the left under Uehara sensei's name, it lists his "shihan kyoka", or instructor certification, as 1962 (Showa 37), March 31.

Half cut-off on the upper left is--I think--Kaneshima Shinsuke sensei, who apparently invited Uehara sensei to the March 1962 seminar.

Aaron Meldahl

[Katsujinken]

Hi Aaron,

I suspected that was probably the case, just wanted confirmation. So guess the publication date of the work we see in the photo before us here is December 1962.

It is stated on the Motobu Udun Ti website that when Uehara Seikichi attended this Hakko Ryu seminar he was part of a group of 4, if Seitoku Higa and Kiyohiko Higa were not in attendance, do we know who the other participants were and whether or not they were also awarded a Shihan Grade and/or appeared in this same edition of the catalogue? I assume that the Hakko Ryu Meikan was updated and that Uehara Seikichi did not appear in any later editions?

Regards

Chris Norman

[Tanmei]

Dear Chris san,

My apologies on the delay in responding. Kinjo Sensei told me that the publication is 宗家　奥山竜峰先生創始　護身武芸並に皇法指圧治法学　八光流秘傳解説 - １９６８年　八光塾本部: Goshin Bugei, [Emperor's ??] Shiatsu Treatment, and an explanation of Hakko Ryu Secrets by [its] founder [Soke], Okuyama Ryuho Sensei; Published 1968 by the Hakko Juku Honbu.

I'm not 100% confident on my translation of the title but it should make the publication identifiable.

McCarthy Sensei,
Are you able to tell us more about the source of the photos, it looks like its more than a mere magazine, that has been given reference to in this thread and is in fact a book. I would be interested in knowing the title and date of publication. Thank You.

Regards

Chris Norman

[Katsujinken]

McCarthy Sensei,
Thank you for the information, which seems to suggest that the publication belonging to Kinjo Sensei is not that as stated by Aaron as Hakko-ryu Jujutsu Shihan Meikan (directory) of 1962 but is instead Goshin Bugei, Shiatsu Treatment, and an explanation of Hakko Ryu Secrets by Okuyama Ryuho published in 1968. This is 6 years after the course in 1962. Unless of course this is the publication Aaron was referring to, but his date is wrong?

Regards

Chris Norman

[Tanmei]

Dear Chris san,

Thanks for your feedback.

Unfortunately, I cannot say one way or the other, as I am only going on what my Sensei sent to me.

It might be best to check with a Japanese member of Hakko-ryu Jujutsu in Japan [if you have access to one] or someone who knows its history. I really don't know anything about Hakko-ryu Jujutsu but would guess that they must have a honbu dojo located in Japan somewhere. Perhaps you can find out, e-mail them and ask?

If you want to do that, I have provided the necessary Japanese text below.

八光塾本部御中

私はイギリス人のクリス　ノーマンと申します。八光流に興味をもっています。
下記の出版物があることを知りましたがこの出版物の名前、発行年は正しいかどうかお知らせ願えますか？

「宗家　奥山竜峰先生創始　護身武芸並に皇法指圧治法学　八光流秘傳解説」 - １９６８年　八光塾本部

私のメールアドレスは　[Chris, your e-mail address here]

お忙しいこととは思いますがよろしくお願いいたします。

クリス　ノーマン

[mugitani]

I was not aware of the 1968 book, but was able to get an image of the 1962 book I referenced for comparison (Uehara sensei is on the far left). It was a little different than I remembered, but we can see that the information is the same, save that Uehara sensei's employment and (incorrect) dojo name are missing in the 1968 version. As his photo is the same, this appears to simply be a reprint done again without Uehara sensei's consent.

I do not have knowledge of every Hakko-ryu publication, but the mere existence of the 1968 volume does not change the essential facts.
First, that Uehara sensei did not attend any Hakko-ryu seminars except for the few days in 1962, as supported by Hakko-ryu publications themselves.
Second, that Uehara sensei's name and photo were used without his knowledge or consent (along with many other sensei of various ryu-ha).
Third, that the circumstances of Uehara sensei's participation in the seminar in 1962 have been corroborated by statements from other people, including the Hakko-ryu shihan in charge of his instruction.
It would be interesting to hear any information from the Hakko-ryu organization, but anything contradictory would have to address each of the points above to be credible.

Aaron Meldahl

[Katsujinken]

Thanks Aaron,
Guess that answers my question as to whether or not Seikichi Uehara appeared in any later editions of Hakko Ryu publications, understandably you cannot possible be aware of all Hakko Ryu publications, nor would I or any one else expect you to be. Whilst the likelihood is that Hakko Ryu Hombu could have simply reprinted the 1962 Shihan Meikan as part of the 1968 Goshin Bugei publication without actually having updated it, but as you say and it does seems that details are missing, probably because they did not have them! I probably should not say this, but Hakko Ryu has always struck me as a very political organisation and one that did certain things that suited them to promote themselves when it suited them, often without taking account of others. I would still be interesting in knowing who the other participants were when Seikichi Uehara attended these seminars in March 1962? As I am curious as to whether or not I can identify any of these names as being members of one of the organisatons that Seitoku Higa and Seikichi Uehara were involved in.

Many years ago I heard a story that Ryuho Okuyama had visited Okinawa and had found that the techniques he taught had not worked on the Okinawans, and therefore Okuyama changed them after gaining some insights from a teacher in Okinawa. This story was told by Michael DePasquale Senior (A Hakko Ryu practitioner) many, many years ago. Although I have often wondered whether there was some ficticious licence involved in DePasquale seniors story as Robert W Smith in his Chinese Boxing Masters and Methods tells a story about Ryuho Okuyama and his daughter having visited Taiwan with his daughter who was embarrassed by not being able to escape the grip of a Chinese Boxer.

Regards

Chris Norman

[shindojo]

As a Hakko Ryu black belt and one who has seen the Shihan Gi of Hakko Ryu, I assure you that Hakko Ryu and Motobu Udundi are not the same. The footwork is completely different and the context of the art is different. I actually stopped my pursuit of Hakko Ryu after 20 years of study due to my training in Udundi.

I will say that Hakko Ryu is a principle based art. Despite having a number of techniques at each dan grade, it actually revolves around a few principles such as Hakko Dori, Atemi, Nage, Tekagami, and Otoshi. Advancement in the art into the Menkyo levels is a revising of the principles. I feel it is painfully obvious that Uehara Sensei, being familiar with softer arts...quite possibly one of the only experts of such skills in Okinawa, was issued Shihan Menkyo by Soke Okuyama after discussing the principles of Shihan gi and how they apply over a few days. He was then issued Shihan to place a Hakko Ryu presence in Okinawa. Don't place to much stock in the overblown western interpretation of Shihan or "MASTER"...it just means "instructor" and in the context of the Menkyo system in Hakko Ryu, it is the entry level instructor certificate being followed by Menkyo, Menkyo Kaiden, and Kaiden Sandaikichu. I think in the context of the Hakko Ryu in Okinawa situation, we cannot rule out that it was a political position.

During a visit to Okinawa last year, Taira Sensei asked me to demonstrate a few Hakko Ryu waza. He pointed out one similarity in that the body and the transition within the namba step is what facilitates the technique. But, it is done in Udundi for reasons in addition to simply putting your body into it.

I am also not naive to the fact that there may be some cross-pollination. But, of all of the techniques and principles I have learned, there is only one that stands out as being slightly influenced by a formal Hakko Ryu technique...and it has nothing to do with aiki looking techniques or wrist manipulations. The footwork and wrist manipulations in Udundi are quite unique.

I think that we might be wise to do, which seems to be frowned upon in this discussion for some reason, is take Soke Uehara's word for it! He says there is no Hakko Ryu influence on Udundi. Is it perhaps too much to take the word of Uehara Sensei?

Best

Rob

[shoshin]

Hi Rob,

just in relation to trusting Senior Okinawan Masters, or for that fact most people in relation to the arts origins - putting the actual person to one side histroy shows a whole world of untruths, legends and indeed misleading information - to think otherwise would be foolish.

Of course Uehara Sensei may simply be a very honest person, I don't know but im trying to make a point without insulting him, or indeed any Senior specifically.