Traditional Fighting Arts Forums

Here is a decent clip of Uehara Sensei that is older that shows his real talent. I believe that it was Mario san that stated that Uehara Sensei had some cross training in Hakko Ryu. I can see a lot of that in this clip:

Looks like an Aikido demo. Is there really any Motobu Ryu here at all?

medulaney wrote:Looks like an Aikido demo. Is there really any Motobu Ryu here at all?

As far as i've seen in, Motobu Ryu in action looks about like Aikido, so i'd say that's what we're looking at.

I believe there is another Motobu-Ryu that is (as far as I know) not connected to the Uehara Motobu Ryu.

medulaney wrote:Looks like an Aikido demo. Is there really any Motobu Ryu here at all?

States that it is "torite jutsu"!

interesting footage, im very much 'on the fence' in terms of the accuracy of the Motobu Palace Hand art personally, in terms of authenticity historically speaking.

shoshin wrote:interesting footage, im very much 'on the fence' in terms of the accuracy of the Motobu Palace Hand art personally, in terms of authenticity historically speaking.

You know i've always wondered about it myself, it seems odd to me that something so radically different from almost every other art on Okinawa could exist in isolation, then suddenly blam...there it is.

Zach Zinn wrote:

medulaney wrote:Looks like an Aikido demo. Is there really any Motobu Ryu here at all?

As far as i've seen in, Motobu Ryu in action looks about like Aikido, so i'd say that's what we're looking at.

I believe there is another Motobu-Ryu that is (as far as I know) not connected to the Uehara Motobu Ryu.

You are talking about Motoby-ryu Kempo from Motobu Choki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motobu-ryu

Zach Zinn wrote:

shoshin wrote:interesting footage, im very much 'on the fence' in terms of the accuracy of the Motobu Palace Hand art personally, in terms of authenticity historically speaking.

You know i've always wondered about it myself, it seems odd to me that something so radically different from almost every other art on Okinawa could exist in isolation, then suddenly blam...there it is.

I agree...

dandjurdjevic wrote:

Zach Zinn wrote:

shoshin wrote:interesting footage, im very much 'on the fence' in terms of the accuracy of the Motobu Palace Hand art personally, in terms of authenticity historically speaking.

You know i've always wondered about it myself, it seems odd to me that something so radically different from almost every other art on Okinawa could exist in isolation, then suddenly blam...there it is.

I agree...

I disagree, this is an excellent history re:Tomari-te:

http://www.msisshinryu.com/history/tomari-te/

http://www.msisshinryu.com/masters/bushi/

You must recall that this was a very well kept private art for many years and was to become almost extinct until Nabe Matsamura decided to teach his nephew, Hohan Soken.

Seitoku Higa Sensei of the Bugeikan fame learned his Tomari-te from Choyo Motobu Sensei himself:

Master Higa Seitoku

Higa Seitoku is one of Okinawa's most highly respected Karate and kobudo masters. At the time of writing, he was the president of the All Okinawa Karate Kobudo Rengo Kai.

Master Higa was born in Naha City, Okinawa on January 20th, 1921. He began his training in Karate in 1931 at the age of 11 under Kishimoto Kijun sensei (teacher) and later in 1932 he studied with Kishimoto Koro soko (founder) sensei (teacher). Kishimoto had studied under a Shurite (boxing methods of Shuri) master named Takemura.

In 1937 after five years intensive training Higa Seitoku was ready to start teaching Karate (he was 16). In 1940 Mr. Higa participated in a demonstration in Kawasaki, Japan with Master Toyama Kanken and later journeyed to Mt. Fuji to practice. In 1943 he received the menkyo kaiden (certificate of full proficiency) from Kishimoto sensei and in 1945 received the Shihan menko (master's certificate) from Toyama sensei in Tokyo. Later we find the master pursuing his fondness for yagai renshu (outdoor training) in Sumatra practising in the mountains and teaching.

Master Higa is much involved in the organisational aspects of Karate and in 1947 received his 7th dan (degree) from the All Japan Karate Association. In 1948 he learned from Hanshi Chotoku (Sento Ryu) the (form) kata Seisan and opened a training hall in Kumamoto, Japan. At this time he was Vice President of the Nippon Karate Do Fuku Kai.

In 1950 Master Higa's students began teaching in Shuri, Okinawa. It was at this time that the master learned Pai Sai no kata from Chiko Choshin Hanshi (master professor) and later in 1951 he opened a training hall in the Naha Shuri area From 1956 he began studying Bo jutsu (staff fighting techniques) under Soke Chinen Masame Hanshi of Yamane ryu and in 1960 he was awarded the menkyo kaiden (certificate of full proficiency) of the Yamane ryu school of Bo jutsu. In the following year Master Higa formed the Okinawa Kobudo Kyokai and began Bo jitsu training with Uehara Sekichi sensei of Motobu ryu Uehara sensei had learned his art from Motobu Choyu, the brother of the well known Motobu Choki. Master Motobu Choyu had been a student of Machimura Bucho (the first important family connection).

In 1962 Master Higa learned two new kata. From Nakama Chosu sensei he learned Gojushiho (Useishi) and from Nakamura sensei he learned Pin-An kata. In 1963 he visited Kumamoto, Japan with members of his Association.

Master Higa became a Hanshi in 1964 and in 1966 he received the menkyo kaiden in Hiden Bu Jitsu and also received his Ku dan (9th degree). In 1967 he became the first president of the All Okinawa Karate Kobudo Ren go Kai and in 1968 changed his dojo name to Bu Gei Kan (Warrior Art House) and became President of the association.

Through a series of coincidences, Master Higa had purchased the land for his Bugeikan dojo in Shuri where Okinawan Te (ancient indigenous fighting arts) had been originally taught back in AD 650. In 1973 he became president of the Motobu Ryu Kobujutsu Kyokoi and in 1975 was awarded the Ju Dan (10th degree).

One of Master Soken's senior students, Yuichi Kuda studied in comparatively recent years by working not only under Master Soken and his successor Seiki Arakaki (who died in 1986) but also under Master Seitoku Higa. Thus, we have a second important relationship with that system.

Until quite recent times Master Higa taught many Kata, among these were Naihanchi, Pln-An, Seisan, Sochin, Jitte, Neiseishi, Chinto, Pai Sai Sho, Pai Sai Chu, Pai Sai Dai, Kusanku (Ko ryu), Kusanku (Bu Mura Ito), Gojushiho, Motode San Sen, Matsu San Sen, Jissen, Suchin, Rufa, Ni Dan Bu, Sanpa Bu Ryuha, Jion and Ananku.

His kobudo kata include the following: Bo (staff): Ogushiku no Bo, Chikin no Bo Chikin no Bo Dai, Shushi no Kun, Sunakake no Kun Dai and Sho Sakugawa no Kun. Tonfa (side handle baton): Tonfa San no Dai, San no Sho. Nunchaku (flails): Nunchaku Dai, Nunchaku Sho, Ni Cho Nunchaku, Shakunote.

Bugeikan kata are similar to other forms taught within Okinawa. Master Higa believes the most important item is spirit and good attitude. Today, Master Higa's son, Kiohiko is 8th dan headmaster of the Shuri Bugeikan.

From:http://www.rogersheldon.com/omaa/friends_in_bugei.html

Here is a demo of basic Tomari-te by Bugeikan students:

This is a display done at the Okinawan Budo University some years ago where Seitoku Higa founder of the Bugeikan demonstrated. Here Empty hand vs Yari. The techniques here are believed to come from Motobu Udun Di in which Seitoku Higa trained with Seikichi Uehara.

This is a demonstration of throwing techniques from the Bugeikan

Now this is a bit unbelievable for me:

Some exercises, Empty hand, Odori-te, partner weapons and free form examples.

This is Mark Bishop who learned his Ti at the Bugeikan:



I can't help that TI may not be your cup of Tea!

Now, I'm off to have a cup of Tea

The thing you have to remember with this stuff is that if you are doing Aiki or Aikijujutsu or Jujutsu or Tori-te you working with the human body – there’s only so many ways you can bend it – after a while they all start to look similar

It does look like some form of Aikijujutsu and it is very likely there has been some cross fertilisation over the years – I note Mark Bishop’s tenkan ashi-sabaki exercise is very reminiscent of but subtly different to the equivalent Aikikai exercise

Nothing wrong with any of that other than the Aikikai style blending (going with the throw) which really bugs me